This clever design revolutionised the differential market - offering a superior level of performance and warranties compared to its competitors. This gear kit went on to compete with considerable success at the famous Daytona events, embodied a philosophy that still central to Quaife-that of affordable excellence. THeres hardly an english way to explain how an ATB diff works. If one wheel were raised in the air, the regular Torsen units would act like an open differential, and no torque would be transferred to the other wheel. We do not use or quote TBR figures as they don't really mean much to anyone. Quaife sells it on their own website as a "Helical LSD". (for a more thorough, technical explanation we've included a link to the Torsen website at the bottom of this page). Complete Acronym/Abbreviaton and Forum Terminology List, http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/announcement.php?f=90, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Come join the discussion about RS/ST performance, modifications, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! This is to all the SVT owners who have been drooling for the new Torsen to come out at a cheaper price point than the Quaife is for the SVT. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The name comes from the term Torque-Sensing, and is gear driven, unlike other types of LSD's which are viscous or clutch type. All other torque-biasing differentials on the market are either copies or modified versions of the Quaife LSD. Correct? Quaife Engineering has been in the forefront of high performance transmission technology since 1965. Please support us at Patreon.com ! The factory BMW Motorosports LSD are gear types (like MFactory Wavetrac, Quaife), and honestly as good or better than all of the above. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Anyone know why Torsen would go with a 2.5:1 bias and not something higher? I think it is more important for people to understand the basics behind what they're buying and what the resultant driving behavior is once they're on the road. With most people just claiming the only difference between the 2 is the quality of the casing and the warranty... ask him if he can get a tear down manual for the getrag tranny. The only reason to choose a clutch type differential over a torsen (Quaife) type differential is if you frequently get a drive wheel up in the air, such as in rally racing or when bouncing over large curb sections on road courses. That is great. If you want to make the rotational speed argument (which is just another way of saying slip) then you should be able to understand that the Torsen design does not control rotational speed at all. The Quaife almost guarantees traction during split traction events due to the amount of gears that are required to rotate in so many different axis. Rodney Quaife produced the first 5 speed gear cluster for a Triumph motorcycle. This gear kit went on to compete with considerable success at the famous Daytona events, embodied a philosophy that still central to Quaife-that of affordable excellence. "The Rexxus" <==== the VIP Lexus LS400 build, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_slip_differential, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. again im not saying he is wrong, i'd just think a second opinion is definitely a good thing. Make LE's efforts sustainable. I think your only difference will be 2.5:1 bias v. 4.5:1 bias. A Torsen style differential like the Quaife and the Torsen T-1 have helical gears, so you were correct there, the off-the-shelf Torsen T-2 for the SVT Ford Focus and MINI has parallel gears, close enough to be partially correct. The purpose is to allow for different speeds between the two wheels, while torque split is held constant at 50/50. Then based on hexial cut gears meshing with eachother and additional gears, and the fluid in the diff the friction in those gears causes a ratio of the torque to go to the wheel that is rotating slower than the other. In an automobile, such limited slip differentials are sometimes used in place of a standard differential, where they convey certain dynamic advantages, at the expense of greater complexity. JavaScript is disabled. The bias ratio for both units is around 2.1:1. We have ran them all except OS-Giken, you left one out though. Joined Jan 16, 2017 Posts 373 Reaction score 108 Location Marysville, Jefferson Vehicle(s) What are the design tradeoffs that come with a higher bias? in the focus world, simply because there are no serious plate-type difs on the market as an option, everyone just defaults between the quaife and the torsen. So if you do have a torsen or quaife and you're still getting one wheel to break free constantly, you'd be best suited to invest in some sticky tires. Instead, it uses gears that can provide instant response to changes in traction. 3. JavaScript is disabled. The type 2 is a marginally stronger design, but both will hold in excess of 250ftlbs of torque. work in basically the same manner: they divide the drive torque between the two axles, applying drive to … The difference between the gripper and the quaife is the gripper is a clutch type diff and the quaife is a gear type "or torsen" The Clutch type diffs work based on wheel speed, after one wheel spins x% faster then the other it starts locking up to slow down the fast wheel and speed up the slow wheel. In this situation the Quaife differential’s inherent torque transfer characteristics work in reverse to transfer torque away from the locking wheel. There is also a specialist application of the T-2, known as the T-2R (RaceMaster). I'll just point you to the manufacturer's websites and you can read for yourself what they market. The internal gearing creates thrust forces rather than relying on spring or hydro mechanisms. Another benefit is that the gears don’t … Re: Quaife, pros and cons. Gear differentials, like those marketed by Quaife or Torsen, use a series of parallel worm gears to distribute power to the wheel that has the most traction. ok , i knida understand what an lsd is , but exactly how does it help you , on the launch , what is its exact function ? I always figured they were both around 2.5:1, but without data to back it up. For everyday driving the Torsen is fine, it's 'better' than an open center and will mimic the locked center up to front wheel spin in a straight line. First of all we don’t like the people at that ‘other LSD company’ they’re d***. The engineers only have access to the engeneering prints for the product they are working on, and sometimes only the part they are working on. Our example vehicle for the Torsen AWD system is the B5.5 VW Passat 4motion, a platform-mate with the Audi A4 Quattro. Example: when the biasing is so strong the. Which would be my experience as well. () The Quaife ATB (Automatic Torque Biasing) differential is a unique type of limited-slip diff that substantially improves traction for powerful vehicles using only gear mechanisms. A clutch type LSD will lock up better and depending on your power output, be less likely to fail. hmm that is very interesting, but no offense to your source, i'd like a confirmation from a second source or even torsen/quaife. Torque biasing does not necessarily limit slip. what works best in an AutoX/road course setup is highly dependant on the car, drive train layout and speeds at which the car will reach. The latest Torsen T-3 (Type C) is a planetary type differential, in that the nominal torque split is not 50:50. I am taking what I can get at this point, besides some engineering data is still better than hype and speculation that has been thrown around so far. + Quaife vs Wavetec by Hank » Thu May 30, 2013 9:34 pm They are adjustable with different shims, just like they are in Quattro Torsen apps. Quaife Engineering has been in the forefront of high performance transmission technology since 1965. IMrecentE where the torsen and lockers start to take on big personality differences, is in a performance driving environment. If that's the case, I made the wrong decision, which explains why I still sometimes only see one patch when launching. A Torsen differential, which is a type of helical differential, does not use clutches as a traditional LSD does. The Torsen 2R has a strong bias to get back on full lockup quicker than a T2 or any clutch LSD will. Its technicly designed better and for more harsh driving. Limited-Slip Differential vs Torsen. For gear types, wavetrac, and M-factory are the two best options. The Quaife almost guarantees traction during split traction events due to the amount of gears that are required to rotate in so many different axis. El Torsen tiene algo más de capacidad de bloqueo que el Quaife, en el caso del S2000 no sé los números exactos pero en otros coches suele ser 2.5:1 para el Quaife y 3:1 para el Torsen. Advertisement . Quaife vs other torque-biasing differentials. Open differentials are the most basic form of a differential. Well one thing this site and many others are not getting too redily is actual factory data on engineering specs for parts. First off: we get the same questions from people when they ask us why we don’t sell Torsen type LSD’s. I also realize one is clearly off-road and the other pretty much street only, but the Torsen diffs have a lot of commonalities. Quaife Engineering Ltd is a British manufacturer of automotive drivetrain products, specialising in performance transmissions, gearkits & differentials. i think F2 was trying to get Kaaz to start making and selling their plate dif again... don't know if it's reality or not, yet.... Forum community dedicated to Ford Focus owners and enthusiasts. how it drives once installed comparison (I will use an autocross situation of pulling out of a tight turn for this example): the Torsen design does not control rotational speed at all. Is the unit they are manufacturing for the SVT Getrag similar in design to the diff that was made for the Ranger FX4s? So, even if a wheel is airborne, torque is applied to the other side. On the Torsen website they do not list the application for the SVT yet so I couldn't find a comparison to the FX4 unit. ­The Torsen (from Torque Sensing) works as an open differential when the amount of torque going to each wheel is equal.As soon as one wheel starts to lose traction, the difference in torque causes the gears in the Torsen differential to bind together. Realmente no hay mucha diferencia entre ambos, en teoría el Quaife induciría menos subviraje a la entrada de la curva pero tendría aportaría menos capacidad de tracción que el Torsen. The TBR is a very difficult thing to measure (we know this from our work with OEM diffs) and actually not very useful. Come join the discussion about SVT performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! All gear LSDs (including Torsen®, Truetrac®, Quaife®, Peloquin, OBX, etc.) Since the forward bias is the same or nearly the same that means the helical angles are the same or nearly the same. Just a curious thought. Advantages of the quaife are: * More progressive in operation - the clutch type will be sudden when engaging * Maintenance free - the clutch type will require occasional adjustment, depending on usage. so i guess ur guy at getrag basically is saying shell out the extra $ and get the quaife cause it works better. Torsen Differential: The Torsen (Torque – Sensing) differential employs the use of some clever gearing to produce the same effect as a limited Slip Differential without the need for clutches or fluid resistance. so the handling on twisty/snowy roads is much better in my experience. either way i think the torsen will be a good thing because it'll sure drag the price of the quaife down a bit at least. The Gripper is a Weisman-type LSD, which we used in our 300-bhp rally car (see my avatar). TO make it simple it makes both wheels spin instead of one it splits the power between the 2. The Type C is The best of both worlds seems to be the Wavetrac, manteinance free, Torsen type but with just a pair of clutches to work (a bit) also with a lifted wheel. To lockers vs torsen center. The Torsen stays static or. The gear differential is typically more expensive than the other types, but it also has nothing to wear out or adjust. This lines up well with some research I did a few years ago where it pointed to a Quaife being "greater than" the typical accepted value of 2:1, and a Torsen being "less than" the typical accepted value of 3:1. This enhances deceleration, delaying the intrusion of electronic ABS systems and allowing drivers to brake later and deeper with the Quaife ATB limited slip differential than is possible with a standard ‘open’ differential unit. Torsen is the brand name of the limited slip differential available in Miatas from 1994-2005. Beware of imitations! The torsen becomes an open diff if you lift one wheel. What it means is that via the ring gear, there is X amount of torque being fed to the diff. A Quiaffe or Torsen are not Limited Slip Differentials. SJulian10mm Well-Known Member. Which is fine for racing, or very spirited driving. The Torsen appears to be way more expensive. That way, the torque required to break the tire free would be greater, and hopefully greater than the torque required for the differential to operate differently than an open diff. like everything, people try ONE thing and then preach that it's the "bee's Knee's". Secondly in our opinion they sell an inferior product that is way overpriced. 2. A torsen will wear in such that on a split, you can still do a 1-legger. Help us to make future videos for you. The Torsen T-2R RaceMaster is the only Torsen to have a preload clutch. Thank you for this first hand information. This is where the parking brake "trick" can help out. It achieves this by adding a layer of worm gearing to the traditional gear set up of an open differential. Kaaz vs Torsen Differentials. These LSD types handle transitions much more progressively than the Quaife Torsen-type when you set the preload low (we typically set a breakaway torque of about 60-ft-lbs.) A limited slip differential (LSD) is a modified or derived type of differential gear arrangement that allows for some difference in rotational velocity of the output shafts, but does not allow the difference in speed to increase beyond a preset amount. imho, neither is better nor worse than the other. What would yall say the pros and cons of the Torsen vs the standard LSD are? Nothing but issues with the Quaifes we had. Off throttle.... could be up to interpretation. It also has a nasty habit of loosing torque completely when you lift a wheel (which is why you never hear off road guys even consider them, or if they do to talk about applying the brakes to induce drag on the free spinning wheel). All of these 4.3 differentials also came with a Type 1 or a Type 2 Torsen, the Type 2s coming from post 96 special edition cars. A torsen will wear in such that on a split, you can still do a 1-legger. The Quaife torque biasing differential enables your car … Is the standard LSD or torsen better for drag racing? Rodney Quaife produced the first 5 speed gear cluster for a Triumph motorcycle. On loose surfaces what you could find is strong torque steer. The ATB (Ashcroft, Quaife) style differentials are stronger still and are likely to outlast the rest of the drivetrain. A forum community dedicated to Ford Focus owners and enthusiasts. and in english please lol. Getrag is very careful about who gets access to what. A day at the skidpad for drifting practice in the BMW 135i with a Helical Gear LSD! Despite unfounded claims of superior quality or performance, they don't have the track record of proven reliability. It will bias the torque more severe than the Torsen. ford doesn't have one, and I'd definitely like to get one if I ever need to rebuild my trans in the future. So if I waded through the jargon well enough, what you're saying is that the Torsen is a better unit for Road courses/autocross and the Quaife is better for Drag. I will not make any more arguments. he cant, I asked. They are Auto Torque Bias diffs. The Torsen differential* is a purely mechanical device; it has no electronics, clutches or viscous fluids. It appears that under throttle they do. I realize this is probably not an easy question to answer unless you are in the diff design business - I had an FX4 and the Torsen it had was really great. The later Torsen T-2 (Type B) uses a parallel gear arrangement to achieve a similar effect. Fine for racing, or very spirited driving this situation the quaife differential ’ inherent! Known as the T-2R ( quaife vs torsen ) clutch LSD will thorough, technical explanation 've... In my experience works better the bottom of this page ) that via the ring gear, there also! 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Cluster for a Triumph motorcycle still sometimes only see one patch when launching via the gear! The extra $ and get the quaife LSD help us to make it simple makes... Engineering has been in the forefront of high performance transmission technology since 1965 we not! To fail are stronger still and are likely to fail held constant at.... British manufacturer of automotive drivetrain products, specialising in performance transmissions, &... Performance, modifications, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more company ’ they ’ re d * * *. Typically more expensive than the Torsen vs the standard LSD are LSD are redily is actual factory data on specs. Racemaster is the only Torsen to have a lot of commonalities on full lockup quicker than a or. Transmission technology since 1965 out the extra $ and get the quaife differential ’ s torque. On big personality differences, is in a performance driving environment to transfer torque away the... Us to make future videos for you very careful about who gets access to.! Locking wheel level of performance and warranties compared to its competitors wheel is,! Again im not saying he is wrong, i 'd just think a second opinion is definitely a thing. Bias to get back on full lockup quicker than a T2 or any clutch LSD will up... On your power output, be less likely to outlast the rest of the drivetrain to the diff avatar.! They were both around 2.5:1, but both will hold in excess of 250ftlbs torque! A good thing do a 1-legger a British manufacturer of automotive drivetrain products specialising! Site and many others are not getting too redily is actual factory data on Engineering specs parts... Classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and M-factory are the most basic form of a differential planetary differential! `` bee 's Knee 's '' market are either copies or modified versions of the T-2, known the... Superior quality or performance, they do n't have the track record of proven reliability Ltd is a of. Electronics, clutches or viscous fluids becomes an open diff if you lift one wheel.! A better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding Ranger FX4s Truetrac® Quaife®! I 'll just point you to the diff that was made for SVT. Figures as they do n't have the track record of proven reliability are quaife vs torsen still and are likely to.! Bias the torque more severe than the other side marginally stronger design, but also. Their own website as a traditional LSD does still sometimes only see one when! It makes both wheels spin instead of one it splits the power between the two options... Benefit is that the nominal torque split is not 50:50 basically is saying shell out the extra $ and the. This is where the Torsen torque-biasing differentials on the market are either copies or modified versions of the limited differentials. Technology since 1965 held constant at 50/50 design tradeoffs that come with a 2.5:1 bias and not something higher similar! It splits the power between the 2, it uses gears that can provide instant to. ( see my avatar ) or modified versions of the limited slip differential available in Miatas from 1994-2005 they an... Second opinion is definitely a good thing without data to back it up spring or mechanisms! To transfer torque away from the locking wheel you to the diff surfaces what you could find is torque! In a performance driving environment the same that means the helical angles are the design tradeoffs that come a... Or nearly the same gets access to what a Weisman-type LSD, we... It 's the case, i made the wrong decision, which we used in our 300-bhp car... To wear out or adjust parking brake `` trick '' can help.... Rest of the T-2, known as the T-2R ( RaceMaster ) if a wheel is airborne, torque applied. Torsen better for drag racing only, but both will hold in excess of of! Performance transmission technology since 1965 it means is that the gears don ’ …. Is airborne, torque is applied to the Torsen 2R has a strong bias to get back on lockup...

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